The Guthrie’s of Early King and Queen and Middlesex Co., Virginia November 23, 2008

 

 

    There have been several early Guthrie family traditions published. Two of these traditions in particular, the letter of Henry Pigg Guthrie to his daughter, and the pension application papers of Elizabeth Hutchenson Guthrie. Yes, pension application papers are merely family tradition. Think about this, suppose you are a widow intending to apply for a war pension. The time of service for your former husband is years past and the government reguires documention from several sources. While gathering this documention from these diverse sources there are bound to be differences in memory as to how things actually happened. There is probably no written documentation for dates and lineage. If these differences are submitted then there will be no pension. So the differences are reconciled. Any pension application that had documentation from several sources was probably fudged. An example: Five people witness a robbery in a resturant. If these five people tell exactly the same story to the police then they have gotten together and made up a composite of what actually happened.

 

    I have two brothers, and we can't even agree on what happened in our own childhood. In my family there is a tradition that Belle Starr and her male companions visited one of my great uncle's homes for supper one evening. The story is very specific with names, written in the first person, states that another family recieved money from the Starr's and when to Wilburton to pay their taxes. The story even states the person who cooked the supper served that night. The major problem with the story is that it absolutely could not have happened. Belle Starr died prior to statehood when taxes were due, and prior to the birth of the cook. Also prior to my family moving to the Indian Territory. No truth at all, someone made it up. My uncle who was an educated man and family researcher passed the story along without checking it out first.

 

Also, I think the words, "from Scotland, of Scotland, and Scottish" have all come to mean that the person emigrated from Scotland. I believe the writers wanted their ancester to have been from Scotland. And secondly, I think the situation today is very similar; researchers want their ancester to have Indian ancestry. There are many reasons this is stated for the truth. From "grandpa looked Indian to gt-grandma said she was 1/16th. Cherokee".

 

    As to Henry P. Guthrie's letter to his daughter. That letter was written in 1867, when Henry was 74 years old and one or two years prior to his death. Henry might have been very keen of mind, but he was still relying on family tradition and memory. Family tradition is just a story told from memory and then changed a little each time it is retold.

 

    Henry Pigg Guthrie states in a letter to his daughter that his great-grandfather gave 60 acres of land to each of three sons, and the balance to his grandfather. One of these 60 acre tracts was in the possession of a John Guthrie who died in 1761 and whose will was probated on October 17, 1761. This will mentions three sons, James, Richard and John, Jr. John, Jr. was bequeathed on a shilling and James and Richard were to receive the land. John Guthrie, Sr. had a brother, William, to whom John, Sr. was heir-at-law. James, the oldest son of John, Sr. was to have his choice of John's land or Williams's land and the other portion was to go to Richard. (Call, Daniel. Cases in the Court of Appeals of Va. Quoted in the William and Mary College Quarterly, Series 2, Volume II, page 113.

 

    Since John, Sr., and William were brothers and not cousins, these two had to have been two of the brothers originally given the land. John, Sr. had three sons, James, Richard and John, Jr. Henry Pigg's father (James) had only one brother according to the pension records of James Pollard Guthrie's wife Elizabeth Hutchenson Guthrie. Therefore we have James, Richard and John, Jr. sons of John, and we also have James the father of Henry and James' brother John Pollard. We also have the names of three of the brothers who were originally given the land. James who received the remainder, John who received 60 acres, and William who received 60 acres and died without an heir.

 

    If Henry P. grandfather was named either James or John he would have had to have been James since the John that received 60 acres had three sons not two.

 

 

    James, Richard and John, Jr., were granted pews in the "new church" in Stratton Major Parish on December 11, 1767. They therefore would have been born prior to 1746. William, died prior to the death of his brother John in 1761. Looking at the birthdates of the grandsons of the original John Guthrie, it is hard to believe that this John is the same as the John of York Co., and born in 1636. Since Henry Pigg Guthrie is specific when he states that his great-grandfather emigrated during Cromwell's rebellion; however, I think that perhaps John of York Co., is indeed his ancestor. Perhaps John of York Co., is the emigrant and his son John was granted the land.

 

    Now who is the last of the four brothers left the land. Edward died September 28, 1739, according to the register of the Christ Church Parish in Middlesex Co. The John Guthrie, who married Elizabeth Baskett in 1689, died about 1706. That only leaves two known possibilities, Samuel who married Elizabeth Hoole and Daniel. Daniel is closely associated with Edward and the ferry on the York River. Also, from the vestry book of Stratton-Major Parish. Samuel guthry now refufing to hav Dorothy Holliday bound to him the church Wardens are hereby empowered to bind her to John Pigg. Perhaps Samuel is the last of the four brothers.

 

    

        I would certainly like to know about the John Guthrie was who was sentenced to death on 4 May 1739, for house breaking and stealing. Looking at the above chart he would appear to have been a descendant of Samuel, Daniel or Thomas.

 

    A close examination of the families of the wives of the above Guthrie's would perhaps shed more light on the unknown associations.

 

    Please do not take any of the above as proof of anything. This paper is simply an attempt to place the Guthrie's of early Middlesex and King and Queen Co., Virginia in a logical order. I believe the evidence presented for the son's of John (who had the land) are solid. Edward and his descendants are harder to place and the father of John (who married Elizabeth Baskett) is merely a guess. Please do not distribute this paper without my name, mailing addres and email address. Also please ask any that you do distribute it to to contact me. I may have corrections or additions I want to add.

Calvin P. Guthrie November 23, 2008

 

 

A few days ago several folks mentioned having the Stilwell, Oklahoma Guthrie's as ancestors. The following comes from the Oklahoma Historical Society.

 

Calvin P. Guthrie is not my ancestor.

 

Commissioner of Indian Affairs, Washington, D. C.

Sirs:

    I hereby make application for such share as may be due me of the fund appropriated by the Act of Congress, approved June 30, 1906, in accordance with the decrees of the Court of Claims of May 18, 1905, and May 28, 1905, in favor of the Eastern Cherokee. The evidence of identity is herewith subjoined

 

Name: Calvin P. Guthrie

Residence: In Third District Cherokee Nation

Town and Post Office: Stilwell

County: Flint

State: Ind. Ter.

Date and Place of Birth: In Fling District I.T.

By what right do you claim to share: Mother Sarah A. Guthrie nee Adair. Brothers Elias and and John Cook; Sisters Becky and Raciel Cook.

Are you married: Yes

Name and age of wife or husband Ruth Guthrie age 45 Years

Give names of your father and mother, and your mother's name before marriage:

Father—English name Charles Guthrie (white); Indian name Oo gos hah nah hee tah. Charles was born in Georgia

Mother Sarah A. Guthrie; maiden name Sarah A. (Adair). Sarah was born in Georgia

Where did they reside in 1851? Father: In Flint District, I. T. Mother: In Flint District I. T.

Date of death of your father and mother: Father living, mother unknown

 

 

 

 

Alabama Ancestors—Posted November 20, 2008

 

Larry J. Guthrie

Rt. 1 Box 505

Sulphur, OK 73086-9787

(405) 622-2202

June 15, 1994

Research summary for my Guthrie Ancestors

I will start with my gr-gr-grandfather John B. Guthrie. My uncle Noble Ottis Guthrie indicated in his genealogy research that the family came from Colbert Co. Alabama or Cherokee, Alabama. Cherokee is in Colbert Co.

Ottis shows that John B. had a:

Brother, William Carroll married to a Lucy Wallace (a brother to Frank Wallace)

Sister, Lucette who married a James Little

Sister, Ellen who married a Henry (Herbert) Lee

Sister, Eliza who married a Harris Wallace

Sister, Anna who married a John David Gassier

Ottis also shows the children of John B. Guthrie as:

Son William Carroll (b. 27/Nov/1833 d. 27/Oct/1912 in Hartshorne, OK) who married (24/Dec/1867 Colbert Co., Alabama) Emily Elizabeth Bethune (b.20/Apr/1844 d. 9/Feb/1904)

Son Jack who married a Lou Cashion

Son Nat who died during the Civil War

Daughter Fannie who married James Bradford

Daughter Clementine who married James Wallace

My source for the above information is Noble Ottis Guthrie's research and particularily his "pink paper". This pink paper is a copy of his research in his typing that he sent to my dad. At this date (1-Jan-1994) I have no access to his records. His son states that he still has the records.

In addition I have in my possession an application for membership and benefits in Modern Woodmen of America made out to Will Guthrie, Gowen, Indian Territory. The paper was signed by Will Guthrie, dated Nov. 19, 1902 and filled in by W.O. Hartshorne M.D. In this paper Will states that:

his father is 69 years old and in good health

his mother is 58 years old and in good health

he has 1 brother living 34 years old and in good health

he has 4 sisters living; 1 32 years old and in good health, 1 30 years old and in good health, 1 24 years old and in good health, and 1 21 years old and in good health.

Will further states that his father's father was 69 when he died of alcoholism in 1870; his father's mother was 48 when she died of a congestive chill in 1867. In addition but not important to this narrative Will stated that his mother's father was 50 when he died (fell off a horse) in 1870; and his mother's mother was 56 when she died of peritonitis in 1878.

Summary of the above: All of this information comes from my Uncle Noble (Ottis) Guthrie's research and from the Woodmen of American insurance paper.

1. John B. Guthrie was born in 1801 and died in 1870.

2. John's wife was born in 1819

3. That William Carroll (William Riley's Father) was born in 1833. William Riley was my grandfather.

4. That William Carroll had brother's Nat and Jack, and sister's Fannie and Clementine.

5. That John B. Guthrie had a brother William Carroll, and sister's Lucette, Ellen, Eliza, and Anna.

From here I found in the 1850 Lawrence Co. Alabama Census the following families. Lawrence Co. is adjacent to Colbert Co. I probably searched Colbert Co. and didn't find anything.

Guthrie, John B..........49M..VA

Ann...........................30F..Ala

William......................16M..Ala

Absolum....................13M..Ala

Nathaniel...................11M..Ala

Sarah......................... 9F..Ala

Lousethy.................... 7F..Ala

John........................... 4M..Ala

Clementine................. 1F..Ala

Little, Mary...............70F..VA

I believe John to be John Jackson. Mary Little, would probably be Ann's mother, especially so considering the marriage licence found later. John matches both name and date. William matches name and date. Nat and Nathaniel match. Clementine matches name. I think there was a daughter Fannie older than William, born about 1832. Note that according to the age given for Ann she would have been 12 when married in 1831. I believe that Ann Little Guthrie is the granddaughter of Major William Russell. Evidence for this: (1) The marriage certificate to Ann Little. (2) Mary Little living in the household of Ann. (3) The following land records from the Old Huntsville Land Records: 10-29-1832, Claiborn Little Lawrence Co. Sec 12 TWN 6 R10W: 2-15-1839 Absolem Little Franklin Co. Sec 35 TWN6 R10W. I believe that both plots of land are in Franklin Co., and that the counties listed are in fact the place of residence of Claiborn and Absolem Little. (4) The Major William Russell History in Vol. 10, No. 3, Aug 1990 issue of Natchez Trace Traveler showing an Ann Little with a mother Mary and a brother Claiborne.

From the 1850 Laurence Co., Alabama Census.

Bradford, James..........26M..TN

Jane...........................18F..Ala

William..................... 3M..Ala

Sarah.........................2F..Ala

Mary.........................1F..Ala

This may be the Fannie mentioned above. This family is next door to the following Stephen Little family and four houses from John B. Guthrie's.

Also from the 1850 census.

Little, Stephen.........33M..GA

Lousethy.................33F..VA

James.....................10M..Ala

Elizabeth.................. 9F..Ala

Absolum.................. 8M..Ala

Susan....................... 7F..Ala

Mary....................... 5F..Ala

William.................... 6M..Ala

John................... 7/12M..Ala

 
 

I believe this is John B. Guthrie's sister Lousethy. John and Lousethy were only two records apart in the census. Both John and Lousethy named children Absolum, John, and William. John had a child named Lousethy. Ottis said that Lucette married a James Little. Since the first child of Stephen and Lousethy is named James, I believe that Stephen was Stephen James or James Stephen Little. I also have a marriage record for Stephen Little and Lucetta Guthrie dated 14/Jan/1840. Just in time for their first child to have been 10 years old in 1850.

Again from the 1850 Lauderdale Co., AL census.

Guthrie, William C...... 31M..Ten

Elizabeth.................... 34F..Ten

Richard..................... 10M..Ala

Mabald....................... 8F..Ala

Hannah....................... 5F..Ala

Mary.......................... 3F..Ala

Isaac.................... 4/12M..Ala

 
 

This is John B. Guthrie's brother. Ottis in his pink paper has Isaac Franklin born in 1849. Janie born 1842 (Mabald). Caroline born 1844 (Hannah). Mary was born 1846. All are matches. Note these ages are not consistant from census to census to the gravestone in Margerum. William Carroll and Elizabeth D. are buried in the Margerum Cemetery across the road from the Margerum Methodist Church in Margerum, Colbert Co., Alabama. The tombstones are new. The old tombstones are still in place however; and the dates are the same on both. William Carroll born October 12, 1818, died July 31, 1886. Elizabeth D. born December 21, 1820, died June 13, 1887. In the same area are the graves of Mary F. Guthrie born March 8, 1853 died December 15, 1891, and Caroline Guthrie 1846-1931. Also in the same general area are the following three graves: FATHER, Frank Wallace, born December 15, 1832, died August 9, 1898; Mother Mary A. Wallace, born July 28, 1835, died August 28, 1923 and Ella A. Wallace, born April 28, 1861, died August 26, 1877. All of the descendants of William Carroll other that the two unmarried daughters above are buried in the Pleasant Hill Church cemetery which is about 5 miles north on Mill Creek Loop road, a few miles west of Cherokee. The only male living descendant of William Carroll, Ralph Guthrie, was living in 1994 at 3951 Mill Creek Loop, Cherokee, AL 35616. The dates of burial in the Pleasant Hill cemetery date from 1849 to 1984. Ralph Guthrie stated when I visited that he was the last male surviver of William Carroll Guthrie. I believe I have accounted for all of them.

I'm convinced that John B. Guthrie from Lawrence Co. Alabama 1850 Census, page 375B record no. 175 is my gr-gr-grandfather. William C. Guthrie from same census, record 162 is my gr-gr-uncle. Lousethy Little from same census, record 172 is my gr-gr-aunt. And Jane Bradford from same census, record 171 is also my gr-gr-aunt, see additional evidence for the last in the 1860 Lawrence Co., Alabama census later. The 1840 Lawrence Co. census shows: JN. B. Guthrie 2M < 5 1M 5-10 1M 30-40 1F < 5 1F 10-15 1F 10-20 The males in this census would be John(father) 39, Nathaniel 1, Absolum 3, and William 6. The females Ann(mother) 20, unknown 2, Jane 8. A Mary Little who would have been 60 was not living with them yet, as she was in the 1850 census. WM. C. Guthrie 1M < 5 1M 20-30 1F < 5 1F 20-30 The males in this census would be William (father) 21, and Richard 4. The females would have been Elizabeth(mother) 24, and Mabald 3. From the 1860 Lawrence Co., Alabama Census, The Northern Division/ P.O. Courtland. 477

From the 1860 Lawrence Co., AL census

Bradford, James.......37M..TN

Frances....................27F..AL

WM........................14M..AL

Sharan....................12F..AL

Mary......................10F..AL

Robert..................... 8M..AL

 
 

Here is the Fannie mentioned by Ottis. She is the Jane married to James Bradford in the 1850 census. They are now living adjacent to W. C. Guthrie 478.

From the 1860 census.

Guthrie, W.C..........41M..AL

Betsy......................30F..AL (note this age)

Richard...................20M..AL

Mahala...................17F..AL

Frances..................13F..AL

Franklin..................10M..AL

Bobo, WM.............27M..GA

And:

Guthrie, John.........60M..VA

W.C.....................26M..AL

Absolem...............24M..AL

Nathaniel..............21M..AL

Lou......................15F..AL

John.....................13M..AL

Clementine.............9F..AL

*Note John Guthrie has no wife shown on the 1960 census.

.

Chapter 2

Marriage book B 1828-1841: pages 52 and 53. Location Lawrence Co. Archives, shows the marriage of John B. Guthrie to Ann Little by David McVay J.P. 6/Nov/1831. (I have a copy of this certificate)

Marriage book B, page 182 shows the marriage record of Carroll Guthrie to Elizabeth Wallace by J. L. Stephenson J. P. 19/Jan/1837. The original bond had bondsman: William H. Wallace. (I have a copy of this certificate)

Marriage book B, page 249 or 219 shows the marriage record of Stephen Little to Lucetta Guthrie by Jas. E. Martin, 14/Jan/1840.

The following material down to the marker comes to me from Myra Borden paid researcher.

January 4, 1992

Myra Borden

2634 AL HWY 101

Mt. Hope, AL 35651

Source: Orphan Court Minute Book C 1830-1834 Location Lawrence County Archives (LCA) pages 352 and 368 page 352--Orphans Court Sept. term 1833.

Ordered by the Court that Jeremiah Wallace be appointed guardian of Lucretta and Carroll Guthrie minors under the age of twenty one years of age children of NATHANIEL GUTHRIE deceased and he having entered into bond with James Wallace as his security in two several bonds in the sum of five hundred dollars each conditioned as the law directs it is further ordered that letters of guardianship issue to him accordingly. (My note: William would have been 14-15 at the time and Lucretta would have been 16-17.)

page 368--Orphans Court Nov. term 1833

On the application of Eliza Guthrie it is ordered by the court that James J. Wallace be appointed her guardian and he having entered into bond in the sum of five hundred dollars with Davis Wallis as his security which is received by the court it is further ordered that letter of guardianship issue to him accordingly.

Source: Inventory and Will Book C 1829-1834 Location LCA pages 299 and 300 Dec 1833

Ordered that the inventory of Luciltol (Lucretta) Guthrie as returned and sworn to by Jeremiah Wallace her guardian be received and recorded I have this day paid Jeremiah Wallis $187.28. It being the balance due to Lucettat (Lucretta) Guthrie from her fathers estate also $218.48 being the amount due from said estate to W C Guthrie. D. Gurley administrator of N. Guthrie deceased State of Alabama Lawrence County

Personally appeared before me John Gregg clerk of the county court of said county Jeremiah Wallis who after being first duly sworn deposeth and saith that one hundred and eighty seven dollars and twenty eight cent is the amount which has come to his hands as guardian of Lucretta Guthrie and two hundred and eighty dollars and fifty eight cents is the amount which has come to his hands as guardian of W. C. Guthrie of the estate of their deceased father Sworn and subscribed before Jeremiah Wallis on the 16th day of December 1833 John Gregg Clerk State of Alabama Lawrence County County court in vacation return day Dec 18th 1833 Present the honorable James B. Wallace Esq. Judge of said Court Ordered that the inventory of Eliza Guthrie by her guardian James J. Wallis be received and recorded. page 300 I have this day paid James J. Wallis guardian for Eliza Guthry one hundred and ninety seven dollars and ninety four cents the amount due here from her fathers estate after deducting twenty dollars and 53/100 for money I had advanced to her. 13th Dec 1833 Davis Gurley (My note: The total amount to the three was 624.23)

Personally appeared before me John Gregg clerk of the county court of said county James J. Wallis who after being duly sworn deposeth and saith that one hundred and ninety seven dollars and ninety four cents is all that has come to his hands as guardian of Eliza Guthrie of the estate of her father deceased Sworn and subscribed before me the 16th day of Dec 1833. James J. Wallace John Gregg clerk Source: Orphan Court Minute Book 1836-1838 Location LCA pages 47, 203, 204, 441 and 442 page 47--Orphan Court Aug term 1836 Settlement of Jeremiah Wallace guardian of Lucetta Guthrie and Wm. C. Guthrie heirs of Nathaniel Guthrie deceased.

Pages 203 and 204--Orphan Court June Term 1837

Settlement of Jeremiah Wallace guardian of Lucetta Guthrie and William Guthrie. pages 441 and 442--Orphan Court July term 1838 Settlement of James J. Wallace guardian of Eliza Wallace formerly Eliza Guthrie. William H. Wallace who intermarried with said Eliza Guthrie.... Amount received of Davis Gurley administrator of the estate of Nathaniel Guthrie deceased $197.94.

From research by Myra Bordan the following: "I found no records in Lawrence County showing the appointment of an administrator, inventory nor final settlement for Nathaniel Guthrie. The enclosed records plainly tell us that Davis Gurley was administrator of Nathaniel Guthrie's estate. From all indications he brought the estate to final settlement. Nathaniel Guthrie was not on the 1830 Lawrence Co., Al census. A search of census indices for 1830 might give verification to his residence at that time. Then a search could be performed for as estate record in that county and state. I find that a Nathaniel Guthrie married Fanny Link on the 25 July 1798 in Halifax County, Virginia. This may or may not be the Nathaniel Guthrie for which you search. However, this marriage occurred at the right time to be the parents of John B. Guthrie who was born about 1801 in Virginia. Deed records giving a given name for Nathaniel Guthrie's wife will help establish if this is the correct marriage or not.

From the guardian record proof has been established to the father of Eliza, Lucretta and William C. Guthrie. However, John B. and Melinda would have been of age and should be listed in the final settlement of the estate of Nathaniel Guthrie when located. John B. and Melinda both marry in Lawrence County, AL in 1831. From marriage records, census records, and Probate records of Lawrence County, AL I list the following family of Nathaniel Guthrie. 1--Melinda married first James J. Wallace 8 Dec 1831 in Lawrence Co., AL, he was deceased by 1841. Melinda Wallace married Herbert J. Lee 13 June 1844 in Lawrence Co., AL. This verifies your information that John B. Guthrie had a sister named Ellen who married a Henry (Herbert) Lee. 2--John B. Guthrie born ca 1801 VA married Anne Little 6 Nov 1831 in Lawrence Co., AL 3--Eliza Guthrie b. ca 1812 TN married William H. Wallace 1834 in Lawrence Co., AL 4--Lucretta Guthrie born ca 1817 married Stephen Little 14 Jan 1840 in Lawrence Co., AL 5--William Carroll Guthrie born ca 1819 TN Married Elizabeth Wallace 19 Jan 1837 in Lawrence Co., AL.

NOTE the gap in ages between #2 and #3. There were apparently more children born. They may have died in infancy, and may have lived to adulthood. These need to be located if possible. Also note that Lucretta says on the 1850 and 1860 Lawrence Co., Al census that she was born in Virginia."

**************End of Borden's research****************

Chapter 3

Noble Ottis Guthrie said that John B. had a 4th sister Anna who married a John David Gassier. Summary: Nathaniel Guthrie died intestate. Somewhere there should be a court ordered apriasal and inventory of his estate. Location of this record is unknown. The Nathan living in Shelby Co. KT and who died in 1832 cannot be the correct Nathan since he left a will leaving all to his wife Eleanor and after her death to his brother Isaac Newton. Also Nathan was less than 30 at his death. And last the 1830 census shows only 1 male 15-20 besides Nathan and his wife who was less than 20 years old. From the 1860 Madison Co. Alabama census a rather curious family. I don't know where to place this person if he is a member of the family. If he was a son of my gr-gr-grandfather then he should have shown up on the 1850 census, and would have been 12. He is not there. Perhaps he is a grandson of Nathaniel from a line I am not aware of. I need to check the 1850 census of Madison Co. Alabama further. There were some gaps in the known ages of Nathaniel's children.

From 1860 Madison Co., AL census.

Guthrie, John B........ 22M..Ten

Marinda ................. 25F..Ten

Thos ........................ 5M..Ala

Sarah ....................... 4F..Ala

Lewis ...................... 2M..Ala

Jackson .............. 3/12M..Ala

My gr-gr-grandfather is shown on the 1860 census without a wife. This is curious since his wife is supposed to have died in 1867 from a congestive chill. A note here: I don't know whether John had one or two wives. It is possible that Ann died and John married Martha Shickle. If Ann's age on the census is correct she would have been 11 when she and John married and 12 or 14 when she had her first child; either William or Jane (Fanny). It could be that the Woodmen of America certificate is referencing a second wife of John B. That doesn't change the stated age of Ann on the 1850 census as 30 however. The marriage to Ann Little took place 6/Nov/1831. The marriage of a John B. Guthrie to Martha A(M). Shickle took place on 20/Dec/1856 at the residence of Thomas Bradford of Lawrence County. M. Lackey, J. P. William, J. Crownover bondsman. From Marriage Book 1854-1860 located Lawrence Co. Archives. The 1850 census has a Moses E. Crownover as the next record to John B. Guthrie, then a Thomas Bradford, and then a John Crownover. I need to trace the families of James and Jane Bradford, Herbert J. Lee and Melinda Wallace, Anna and John David Gassier(Gaisser), Lucetta and Stephen Little and William H. Wallace and Eliza Guthrie.

From the 1870 census of Lawrence Co. the following:

Guthrie, William....... 52

Elizabeth..... 53

Hannah........ 21

Nancy ........ 19

Isaac......... 17

William Carroll and Elizabeth D. Wallace Guthrie are buried in the Margerum cemetery. The cemetery is across the street from the Margerum Methodist Church. The graves are in the NE corner. There is a new stone for them. Elizabeth's old stone is in the bushes just to the east of the new stone. The ages for the children don't match very well, but this is certainly my gr-gr-uncle. There were two boys from this marriage, Richard and Isaac. I have no trace of Richard. Isaac Franklin Guthrie married Rosa J. Grisham 24 Dec 1876. ( I have a copy of this certificate) either the name was incorrectly recorded on the marriage certificate or Rosa liked Rhoda bettor as she went by Rhoda and was buried under that name. Rhoda and Isaac Franklin are buried in the Guthrie plot in the Pleasant Hill Church cemetery, Colbert Co., Alabama. This cemetery is located about 5 miles north of hiway 72 on county road 5. Ralph Guthrie who is Isaac's grandson still lives (in 1995) just north of hiway 72 on county road 5. Isaac Franklin and Rhoda had two sons and three daughters. R. L. Guthrie (1881-1968) married Martha ? and had a daughter Bessie (b. Dec 12, 1906 and d. June 24, 1907) Martha died in childbirth and R. L. never remarried. The second son Clint (b. May 7, 1886 d. Jan 10, 1984) had a boy who died young, a girl who died on the same day she was born, another son Ralph, and three daughters who lived. These last four are living now in Cherokee Alabama. I will place here information I get from Ralph Guthrie and his sisters.

 
 

 
 

Chapter 4

What I know of Nathaniel Guthrie.

He died ca. 1833 . He left children as follows:

Anna who married John David Gassier. Melinda who married first James J. Wallace. 8/Dec/1831 and second Herbert J. Lee 13/Jun/1844. Both marriages took place in Lawrence Co. Alabama.

John B. born ca. 1801 in VA married Anne Little 6/Nov/1831 in Lawrence Co. Alabama.

Eliza b. ca. 1812 in TN married William H. Wallace 1834 in Lawrence Co., AL.

Lucretta Guthrie born ca. 1817 married Stephen Little 14/Jan/1840 in Lawrence Co., AL.

William Carroll Guthrie born ca 1819 TN married Elizabeth Wallace 19/Jan/1837 in Lawrence Co., Al.

From the above it apears that Nathaniel Guthrie was married in Virginia prior to 1801, possibly to a Fannie Link. There is a Nathaniel Guthrie on the 1787 Virginia tax list for Amhurst Co. Charged with tax for himself. 00010 indicated 1 horse. A Nathaniel shows up on the 1810 census. 10001-43210-00. Also in 1810 from the tax records of burned counties a Nathaniel Guthrie 1 white, 1 slave, and 2 horses. I find no Nathaniel Guthrie's on the 1820 or 1830 census for Virginia. The only Nathaniels I can find in the 1820, 1830, and 1840 southern states are in Madison Co., Kentucky and 1830 in Shelby Co. Kentucky. I searched all 1820 and 1830 census indices. I found only one other Nathaniel. This one in Pennsylvania and he also appeared on the 1840 census. This Pennsylvania Nathaniel also appears in a family record of New England Guthrie's and does not appear to be directly related to my line of Guthrie's. The Madison Co. Nathaniel apparently died in 1846. The Shelby Co. Nathaniel died in 1832, but was in his early 30's. I can trace the Shelby Co. Nathaniel to his father and grandfather and he is definitely the wrong age. However this leaves the whereabouts of one Virginia Nathaniel unknown. One Virginia Nathaniel came from Amhurst Co. and probably is the one that moved to Kentucky.

I note the following: Guthrie, (or Guttry), Nathaniel, Madison Co., Ky., Aug. 13, 1832; b. Hanover Co. Va., Dec. 23, 1763; living in Amherst 1778, where he served as private under Capt. Ambrose Rucker, 1 mo. Albemarle Barracks; 1780 marched under Capt. William Tucker and his brother, Lt. Joseph Tucker to Hampton Roads, and stationed at a place called "The Half-Way House"; also stationed some time at Little York; Col. Dabney and Gen. Laswon were Commanding Officers; 1781 under Capt. John Loving, Lawson's Brig., and was at the Siege of York; discharged a few days before Cornwallis surrendered. Placed on Pension Roll March 27, 1833. This person died 14/Jan/1846, aged 83 years. I have his pension application papers.

Where did the Nathaniel from Halifax county go? Did he die? My Nathaniel was probably married in Virginia. From census records the family lived in Virginia until 1817 and moved to Tennessee before 1819. Lucretta, Nathaniel's daughter states on at least two census's that she was born in 1817 in Virginia. William Carroll, Nathaniel's son was apparently born in Tennessee. William Carroll son of John B. Guthrie was born 1834 in Alabama. Jane daughter of John B. Guthrie was born in Alabama in 1832. I haven't found any Guthries in the 1830 census. John B. Guthrie would have been 29 on the 1830 census, but was apparently not married unless Ann was a second marriage. This is possible I guess since Ann was very young to have had a child in 1832, however it seems evident that she was married at that young age since on the 1840 census she said she was 20 or younger. I have discounted for the time being the statement in my notes that Eliza was born in 1812 in TN. Even though John B. is 29 in 1830 he could have very well have been living with his father. This would account for him not being on the 1830 census. There are no Nathaniels on the Virginia Census until 1840, and I can account for him. All known facts seem to point to my Nathaniel being the Halifax Co., Virginia Nathaniel.